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Post by moomoomans on Apr 5, 2009 3:52:50 GMT -5
I suggest that the ideas proposed in the Venus Project should be looked into more.
Do I suggest this is a concrete solution? No, I don't,
but I think that many of the ideas proposed in it [which are more or less the standard ideals of technocracy] should be investigated and/or advocated.
It is well known by many people that with the use of technology, we can more or less end human suffering due to scarcity, and we can make the world better for most of our population.
Aside from just being able to provide for everyone, there is the great fact that any tyrant corporation's intents would be nullified by the great abundance of all things, because of the utilization of technology to end the false scarcity created by monopoly and/or technology not being fully used to its greatest potential.
Again, I want to make the point that I do not think that the actual Venus Project will be an alternative to our capitalistic society, but I think it's ideas need to fit into it.
Of course, to many, the Venus Project seems like a foolish attempt at a Utopian Society. This, however, is not true. Is it not a mainstay of scientific practice that if an idea doesn't sound crazy at first, it's not worth investigating? The Venus Project is an attempt at viable technocracy, in which our technology rules the progression of man as a species.
I would like to hear your honest thoughts on this. Please actually learn something about it, don't just reply to this thread with [OH, ZEITGEIST BULLSHIT, GTFO], I want you to actually study and learn how this could offer a viable alternative to our obsolete capitalistic society.
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Post by Operator on Apr 5, 2009 4:00:53 GMT -5
I've seen Jacque Fresco's documentary. I think he's very idealistic and I was pretty skeptical as to whether he could put his ideas into reality in his lifetime, but I was pleasantly surprised that he has succeeded in doing some of that.
As for Zeitgeist, I didn't really get a good vibe from it... Like the Bible and many other profound documents, I believe it mixes truths with some deceptions, and as a result can create confusion. A clear heart should be able to discern what's right from wrong, though.
I'm a personal advocate of being self-sufficient and off the grid. I think if you can sustain yourself you can lead by example, help others, and live up to the greatness of your true self.
I think some of the ideas proposed in the Venus Project are good, but I think there might be even more practical and workable solutions that could be applied more immediately. But if it works for you and doesn't interfere with others, then I support it!
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Post by atrasicarius on Apr 5, 2009 4:19:03 GMT -5
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Post by moomoomans on Apr 5, 2009 4:24:07 GMT -5
I agree. Actually, in the Zeitgeist Movement Wiki, they say they are going to buy land and build a community in New Zealand. This has yet to be seen, but I think starting with one community is a great idea. www.new-zland.com/And to the other reply, I agree with what you said. You have to be able to sort out the truth from the fiction, but I think what remains intact are the ideas that humanity is, in fact, salvagable from the great mess we've put ourselves in. |
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Post by atrasicarius on Apr 5, 2009 4:33:21 GMT -5
As far as Zeitgeist goes, I think some of it's true and some of it's bullshit. Interesting video, but not something that we want to wave around a lot.
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Post by Operator on Apr 5, 2009 4:59:19 GMT -5
For a long time I've kicked around the idea of going off the grid and starting or joining a solar-powered commune. The people living there could each bring their own skill, and the community would operate on a barter/trust system. If I can cook, then I cook for you, and you give me a haircut or mend my clothes... Whatever skill you can bring would be what you had to offer. Days would be spent working hard, but living free, and free time would be spent pursuing art, writing, reading, hiking, training, and meditation. Of course, we all love our technology, so it might be hard to go back that far, but I think a lot of people could benefit from this kind of lifestyle. And of course, it's not like we wouldn't have computers, they just likely wouldn't be online. Anybody could join or leave the community at any time, and we could even sell and trade to the "outside world"... The money would be kept by a treasurer and used for the whole commune, that is, repairing buildings and paying for skills that the community might not yet have. I could go on about this idea, and it might even deserve it's own thread... But I just thought I'd throw it out there  |
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Post by moomoomans on Apr 5, 2009 5:06:28 GMT -5
As far as Zeitgeist goes, I think some of it's true and some of it's bullshit. Interesting video, but not something that we want to wave around a lot. Well of course, but i think the Venus Projects ideas, outside of zeitgeist, are ideas that humanity should at least be considering. |
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Post by moomoomans on Apr 5, 2009 6:12:51 GMT -5
For a long time I've kicked around the idea of going off the grid and starting or joining a solar-powered commune. The people living there could each bring their own skill, and the community would operate on a barter/trust system. If I can cook, then I cook for you, and you give me a haircut or mend my clothes... Whatever skill you can bring would be what you had to offer. Days would be spent working hard, but living free, and free time would be spent pursuing art, writing, reading, hiking, training, and meditation. Of course, we all love our technology, so it might be hard to go back that far, but I think a lot of people could benefit from this kind of lifestyle. And of course, it's not like we wouldn't have computers, they just likely wouldn't be online. Anybody could join or leave the community at any time, and we could even sell and trade to the "outside world"... The money would be kept by a treasurer and used for the whole commune, that is, repairing buildings and paying for skills that the community might not yet have. I could go on about this idea, and it might even deserve it's own thread... But I just thought I'd throw it out there Well, what you're proposing isn't much different from the Technocracy/Venus Project idea. It basically says we'll use technology for production, so that we have no need for money, and all specialities are done by the people capable of them, and willing to perform them. And it will start with the New Z-Land project... |
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Post by Tacgnol on Apr 5, 2009 6:24:12 GMT -5
I myself am a software engineer(14 years experience). I have several friends in the fields of nanotechnology and other various electromechanical engineering fields. I have seen with my own eyes amazing technologies that can be made. I have always thought that eventually society will be free of labour enabling quality time to be spent with loved ones and friends. I have always thought that money could be done away with and without the limitations of greed society could advance more so then we have in the past 30, nay, 10 years. I just saw the Venus project 2 days ago and since then I have been telling everyone I know about it, i do believe it can come to realization within the next 10-20 years. For anyone that's interested in the project, please pass this petition around to all you think would care. www.thepetitionsite.com/1/The-future-that-Humanity-Deserves |
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Post by moomoomans on Apr 5, 2009 7:04:59 GMT -5
I myself am a software engineer(14 years experience). I have several friends in the fields of nanotechnology and other various electromechanical engineering fields. I have seen with my own eyes amazing technologies that can be made. I have always thought that eventually society will be free of labour enabling quality time to be spent with loved ones and friends. I have always thought that money could be done away with and without the limitations of greed society could advance more so then we have in the past 30, nay, 10 years. I just saw the Venus project 2 days ago and since then I have been telling everyone I know about it, i do believe it can come to realization within the next 10-20 years. For anyone that's interested in the project, please pass this petition around to all you think would care. www.thepetitionsite.com/1/The-future-that-Humanity-DeservesThank you very much for this. |
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Post by iamdisappoint on Apr 5, 2009 7:33:13 GMT -5
For a long time I've kicked around the idea of going off the grid and starting or joining a solar-powered commune. The people living there could each bring their own skill, and the community would operate on a barter/trust system. If I can cook, then I cook for you, and you give me a haircut or mend my clothes... Whatever skill you can bring would be what you had to offer. Days would be spent working hard, but living free, and free time would be spent pursuing art, writing, reading, hiking, training, and meditation. Of course, we all love our technology, so it might be hard to go back that far, but I think a lot of people could benefit from this kind of lifestyle. And of course, it's not like we wouldn't have computers, they just likely wouldn't be online. Anybody could join or leave the community at any time, and we could even sell and trade to the "outside world"... The money would be kept by a treasurer and used for the whole commune, that is, repairing buildings and paying for skills that the community might not yet have. I could go on about this idea, and it might even deserve it's own thread... But I just thought I'd throw it out there Yes. I feel the same way. Everyone has their own special traits... not even one is a master swordsman, not everyone is a kickass mage. A 'Back Scratching' system is what I believe will work best, better for larger numbers. A small group of 3-5 people are going to have to multitask, a village of 100 or so could effortlessly do it. Many native tribes used this way of living. They had cooks, they had hunters, they had warriors... we have a similar system today but it is rendered useless by the currency system and associated crap in place today. Ditch the money system and it will run well. The question about this system is what kind of numbers could it handle? Could a planet full of people like today adhere to it? Could multiple planetary colonies adhere to it? How would foreign trade be handled? I'd say trading for that, but then foolish trading could eventually down a civilization... |
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Post by Tacgnol on Apr 5, 2009 7:47:34 GMT -5
I do support the Venus Project and if I had the chance I would leave to start development on it in a heartbeat.
It is not utopian but it is better then what we live in today.
You will of course still have those individuals who feel the need for greed and power; however, they could be "exiled".
It is perfectly capable of existing with today's technology.
The problem would be going from the Venus culture back into current world culture.
You would be without any of the things necessary for survival beyond the "walls of utopia".
My old university has small scale teleportation working, eventually I suppose, your house could be anywhere in the world and all you would have to do is walk through a portal to get home.
They also developed clothes out of nanotechnology that cleans itself.
The main problem I fear about the Venus project would be defense.
War is not a concept anymore with in the Venus ideal.
There is no governing body, there is no police, there is no army.
Whats to prevent a war mongering country from coming and taking all things built up to that point?
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Post by iamdisappoint on Apr 5, 2009 8:32:46 GMT -5
The main problem I fear about the Venus project would be defense.War is not a concept anymore with in the Venus ideal.There is no governing body, there is no police, there is no army. Whats to prevent a war mongering country from coming and taking all things built up to that point? I say that a faction (no recruiting, just volunteers) should be trained for defense only with technology still being developed for defense purposes. No use of force to 'conquer' a land. We attack only when attacked or when absolutely sure they could one-shot us. This team would also be used to apprehend any individuals who might go insane and need apprehension, using non-lethal measures to contain and then release into exile. As much as I would love a violence-free world, others outside of our world may not agree with that. We must hold on to our arms, we have no other choice. |
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Post by Operator on Apr 5, 2009 15:42:23 GMT -5
It would be ideal if we could usher in a new era of peace that didn't involve weapons and needs of defense, because our perspective and regard to each other would change.
I advocate that we bear arms now, but only because those in power have incredible firepower. Ideally, it would be nice to see a disarmed world.
Statistics show that countries that don't have guns have a much lower crime/shooting rate. These days in America, people are losing their minds and acting out with guns before taking the time to think things through.
Then again, if you've lost everything and are on the verge of homelessness and suffering, I guess there's no other choice. It's a shame that violence never really hits its most deserving mark, instead it's the innocent bystanders, family members, and low-level government workers who pay the price.
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Post by moomoomans on Apr 5, 2009 20:41:19 GMT -5
The main problem I fear about the Venus project would be defense.War is not a concept anymore with in the Venus ideal.There is no governing body, there is no police, there is no army. Whats to prevent a war mongering country from coming and taking all things built up to that point? I say that a faction (no recruiting, just volunteers) should be trained for defense only with technology still being developed for defense purposes. No use of force to 'conquer' a land. We attack only when attacked or when absolutely sure they could one-shot us. This team would also be used to apprehend any individuals who might go insane and need apprehension, using non-lethal measures to contain and then release into exile. As much as I would love a violence-free world, others outside of our world may not agree with that. We must hold on to our arms, we have no other choice. Excellent Idea. I think its crucial that this organizations activities would be completely transparent though. I think that is the key to making sure nothing bad happens. |
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